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Divine secrets of the GRRM sisterhood
So as I've complained before, the lack of close-up lasting female-female cooperative relationships in ASOIAF bothers me, but with the footnote that I think GRRM does this on purpose to sympathize its absence and make us crave it more (IE, rooting for Sansa and Arya to make up and be friends). The fact remains though that the dynamics of the genre (and even beyond the SFF genre, in literature/moves/stories in general) makes what he's done particular and pointed -- aka, significantly featuring female companionship in a positive/rooting/sympathetic light in stories ostensibly intended for a mixed gender audience is pretty damn rare, huh?
Okay, Sansa and Arya. I've mentioned before how I was disappointed with how GRRM introduced them. I think it was possible to do so in a way that didn't imply that the girl who had other girl friends was bad and the girl who hung out with boys was good. It's difficult enough as it is to fight the female-as-inherently-bad idea. However, I do think both were given substantiated personalities and viewpoints and I definitely think fans overdo their reaction to their rivalry more than the text calls for, but then I A) react very aversely to imprecise and overdone reactions and B) am very very used to sibling squabbling (it's normal). Anyway, I see their lack of cooperation as potentially delayed gratification, you're denied it in a very noticeable way for so long that you come to crave it. I don't think they'll end the series enemies or rivals, though their reunion and coming together may still be interfered with or tragically prevented somehow. I do like that GRRM shows both girls wanting a sisterly relationship -- neither enjoy each others' hobbies but we see Arya trying to make amends to Sansa, and we see Sansa longing for a sisterly relationship with at least someone. It's important to point out that though Arya is a tomboy, she's never shown as shunning female companionship; even when she's jealous of Sansa's friends, well, she's jealous of it, meaning she'd like it if she could have it, and she spends a good chunk of her surrounded-by-males storyline wanting her mommy. There's clearly something in pop thought though that romanticizes her singularity as a female (see: Lyanna, sole sister of three manly stoic northmen, with absolutely no other women in her backstory).
Catelyn and Lysa. Seriously, this one bugs me. Like, on a normal read-through? It's acceptable, Lysa comes and serves her purpose and does her crazy and leaves with style. Whatever, right? But. Why oh why do we have to have Fat Petty Sister vs Beautiful Good Sister? Their rivalry is even over a man, over a man. Granted, GRRM gives a substantial reason for Lysa's paranoia and small-mindedness: it's a perceptible interpretation that life with Jon Arryn was a very isolating experience, and I have little trouble imagining Lysa viewing her family as users (certainly her father). It's very natural for her to latch on to Petyr as the only one who was ever good to her, and that only deepens her jealousy. Plus when the seeds of the rivalry were planted Lysa was quite a hottie herself, so it's not like she's bad because she's ugly. But it still bugs me, they used to be close while still having quite distinct personalities and they were forever torn apart over a man. Grr. I'm not saying it's a liability to women to be in love, and we do have a brother-brother relationship ruined over a woman (the Greyjoy brothers), but the overall picture for male and female companionship is different, as I'll get to later, so it's more conspicuous. I don't like Lysa, but something about this has always bugged me almost on her behalf. She's a very prominent sister (of a sister) figure and she has to be a crazytoon?
Cersei. All there is to say about Cersei is she likes no women ever at all ever anywhere ever. I swear if her mother was still alive Cersei would hate Joanna too. I can't think of one woman she has not made some catty or insulting comment about -- Sansa, Margaery, Alerie, Taena, Catelyn, Lyanna, Melara (whom she KILLS for daring to set her sights on Jaime). It is possible of course to give the impression that a woman is inherently bad simply if she does not follow the pack of acceptable women (think about those shows or movies where all the housewives in the 50's swarm in on the designated outcast and bestow their condescension upon her), but I don't think that's what GRRM does here. Cersei herself initiates the animosity. There's little to complain about here on the author's part in terms of the depiction of female companionship, he quite unmistakably villainizes Cersei (even though you feel moments of possible sympathy too) so its not easy to take anything she does as a recommendation.
Daenerys doesn't have any female peer relationships, but really she has few peer relationships, period. Once Drogo dies, she seems pretty destined for the isolated life of a leader. Hey, it's lonely at the top, so she doesn't really figure in much as far as nonsexual female-female relationships go.
Margaery and her cousins are shown to be close (though maybe it doesn't pass the requirement for platonism, but we don't know) and a number of the Sand Snakes and Arianne are also close (though even there Obara is sensitive to her difference in status because of her mother ... I'm not sure yet if I perceive this in a gender context, and the fact that there are so many Sand Snakes makes it a bit easier to absorb since relationships within a big cohort of siblings are rarely uniform; it might be the equivalent of Jon Snow's insecurities). But only Arianne has been featured significantly in the plot and during that plot you were very aware of how she was acting alone. Her cousins were all away or locked up, she was separated from them and thus no female-female interaction happened there either. Margaery may be getting support from her cousins but we don't see it. She is ostensibly in cahoots with her grandmother and possibly her mother is in on it too, and that has been significant to the plot, and that's good.
Okay so the men? They get a lot of manly man bonding and male companionship and male friendship -- Jon and his posse (they cuss! they drink! they graduate! they bond!), Ned and his high school buddies, the various orders of brothers. Then the actual brothers as well, the high-profile evolving fraternity between Jaime and Tyrion, Ned's pain over the death of his brother, Jon's deep bonds for Robb and Bran, Hoster and Brynden's long-delayed reunion, Kevan as Tywin's #2. Men all get to do plot-significant things together, their bonds can be points of sympathy for the reader, and there is no liability for the genders not being mixed. Fair to say?
And then we get to male-female relationships, which outside of sexual ones tends to be brother and sister. Jon and Arya are very sympathized, you root for them to reunite, you aww at their closeness, you think he's so much better than old Sansa anyway! Then Ned and Lyanna, well that needs no comment. Ned's woe over Lyanna is EPIC, and isn't Lyanna so cool that she has three brothers and no sisters and gets to be one of the boys (side note: I don't dislike Lyanna; actually, insofar as its possible to like a character we've never seen I really like her. But I find the author's mechanism of her romanticization -- singular female, sensitive yet tomboyish, chosen out of a crowd of women by a male -- noteworthy). Oberyn and Elia are nearly as epic, he dies avenging her death FFS. Dany and Viserys go against that tide, but she clearly idolizes Rhaegar. So, male-male relationships, cool and storyworthy and there is no liability for the lack of mixed genders. Male-female relationships, also cool and storyworthy (and potentially glamorizing for the female).
But. Where are the sisters?
Again, part of me thinks GRRM is intending to present a world that is very lonely for women. They have no career zones, they have no adult friendships (the only one we really see up close is the incidental one between Catelyn and Brienne -- its incidental, society in no way enabled it), they are not encouraged to travel and seek out their own company, and the marriage system enables men to preserve their youthful bonds and not women. Okay, fair. But is it also fair then that the ones he does have become that much more important to do well? Well, I'll cut to the chase, the one I really care to discuss is Sansa and Arya because that's clearly turning into something you root for -- do you get the feeling that GRRM is basically just inventing a problem to solve here? Erm, well clearly I believe that there are pre-existing biases against depictions of female-female interactions, bad depictions lead to bad reception leads to bad depictions and so on and so forth (damn feedback loops), I'm not saying GRRM invented all that. But couldn't GRRM just show a strong cooperative female-female relationship from the start and be done with it? Okay, you can say that readers are more invested if Sansa and Arya have to overcome obstacles, but if that's the case, did he also have to throw in Catelyn vs Lysa? Did he have to relegate the other female-female interactions to the sidebar? Did he have to turn Brienne and Catelyn's friendship down its dark and hostile path? Generally I can fit this into the social realities of the setting, but a part of me wonders if he couldnt've just balanced things out a bit -- though mostly I'm more irritated at the pre-existing reader mindset that the series comes into (again though, feedback loops). As it stands, one can read this series so far and never be challenged in the notion that male bonds are noble and true and deep, while female bonds are frivolous and small and weak. Men give their lives for each other, women shop.
[Poll #1245579]
Okay, Sansa and Arya. I've mentioned before how I was disappointed with how GRRM introduced them. I think it was possible to do so in a way that didn't imply that the girl who had other girl friends was bad and the girl who hung out with boys was good. It's difficult enough as it is to fight the female-as-inherently-bad idea. However, I do think both were given substantiated personalities and viewpoints and I definitely think fans overdo their reaction to their rivalry more than the text calls for, but then I A) react very aversely to imprecise and overdone reactions and B) am very very used to sibling squabbling (it's normal). Anyway, I see their lack of cooperation as potentially delayed gratification, you're denied it in a very noticeable way for so long that you come to crave it. I don't think they'll end the series enemies or rivals, though their reunion and coming together may still be interfered with or tragically prevented somehow. I do like that GRRM shows both girls wanting a sisterly relationship -- neither enjoy each others' hobbies but we see Arya trying to make amends to Sansa, and we see Sansa longing for a sisterly relationship with at least someone. It's important to point out that though Arya is a tomboy, she's never shown as shunning female companionship; even when she's jealous of Sansa's friends, well, she's jealous of it, meaning she'd like it if she could have it, and she spends a good chunk of her surrounded-by-males storyline wanting her mommy. There's clearly something in pop thought though that romanticizes her singularity as a female (see: Lyanna, sole sister of three manly stoic northmen, with absolutely no other women in her backstory).
Catelyn and Lysa. Seriously, this one bugs me. Like, on a normal read-through? It's acceptable, Lysa comes and serves her purpose and does her crazy and leaves with style. Whatever, right? But. Why oh why do we have to have Fat Petty Sister vs Beautiful Good Sister? Their rivalry is even over a man, over a man. Granted, GRRM gives a substantial reason for Lysa's paranoia and small-mindedness: it's a perceptible interpretation that life with Jon Arryn was a very isolating experience, and I have little trouble imagining Lysa viewing her family as users (certainly her father). It's very natural for her to latch on to Petyr as the only one who was ever good to her, and that only deepens her jealousy. Plus when the seeds of the rivalry were planted Lysa was quite a hottie herself, so it's not like she's bad because she's ugly. But it still bugs me, they used to be close while still having quite distinct personalities and they were forever torn apart over a man. Grr. I'm not saying it's a liability to women to be in love, and we do have a brother-brother relationship ruined over a woman (the Greyjoy brothers), but the overall picture for male and female companionship is different, as I'll get to later, so it's more conspicuous. I don't like Lysa, but something about this has always bugged me almost on her behalf. She's a very prominent sister (of a sister) figure and she has to be a crazytoon?
Cersei. All there is to say about Cersei is she likes no women ever at all ever anywhere ever. I swear if her mother was still alive Cersei would hate Joanna too. I can't think of one woman she has not made some catty or insulting comment about -- Sansa, Margaery, Alerie, Taena, Catelyn, Lyanna, Melara (whom she KILLS for daring to set her sights on Jaime). It is possible of course to give the impression that a woman is inherently bad simply if she does not follow the pack of acceptable women (think about those shows or movies where all the housewives in the 50's swarm in on the designated outcast and bestow their condescension upon her), but I don't think that's what GRRM does here. Cersei herself initiates the animosity. There's little to complain about here on the author's part in terms of the depiction of female companionship, he quite unmistakably villainizes Cersei (even though you feel moments of possible sympathy too) so its not easy to take anything she does as a recommendation.
Daenerys doesn't have any female peer relationships, but really she has few peer relationships, period. Once Drogo dies, she seems pretty destined for the isolated life of a leader. Hey, it's lonely at the top, so she doesn't really figure in much as far as nonsexual female-female relationships go.
Margaery and her cousins are shown to be close (though maybe it doesn't pass the requirement for platonism, but we don't know) and a number of the Sand Snakes and Arianne are also close (though even there Obara is sensitive to her difference in status because of her mother ... I'm not sure yet if I perceive this in a gender context, and the fact that there are so many Sand Snakes makes it a bit easier to absorb since relationships within a big cohort of siblings are rarely uniform; it might be the equivalent of Jon Snow's insecurities). But only Arianne has been featured significantly in the plot and during that plot you were very aware of how she was acting alone. Her cousins were all away or locked up, she was separated from them and thus no female-female interaction happened there either. Margaery may be getting support from her cousins but we don't see it. She is ostensibly in cahoots with her grandmother and possibly her mother is in on it too, and that has been significant to the plot, and that's good.
Okay so the men? They get a lot of manly man bonding and male companionship and male friendship -- Jon and his posse (they cuss! they drink! they graduate! they bond!), Ned and his high school buddies, the various orders of brothers. Then the actual brothers as well, the high-profile evolving fraternity between Jaime and Tyrion, Ned's pain over the death of his brother, Jon's deep bonds for Robb and Bran, Hoster and Brynden's long-delayed reunion, Kevan as Tywin's #2. Men all get to do plot-significant things together, their bonds can be points of sympathy for the reader, and there is no liability for the genders not being mixed. Fair to say?
And then we get to male-female relationships, which outside of sexual ones tends to be brother and sister. Jon and Arya are very sympathized, you root for them to reunite, you aww at their closeness, you think he's so much better than old Sansa anyway! Then Ned and Lyanna, well that needs no comment. Ned's woe over Lyanna is EPIC, and isn't Lyanna so cool that she has three brothers and no sisters and gets to be one of the boys (side note: I don't dislike Lyanna; actually, insofar as its possible to like a character we've never seen I really like her. But I find the author's mechanism of her romanticization -- singular female, sensitive yet tomboyish, chosen out of a crowd of women by a male -- noteworthy). Oberyn and Elia are nearly as epic, he dies avenging her death FFS. Dany and Viserys go against that tide, but she clearly idolizes Rhaegar. So, male-male relationships, cool and storyworthy and there is no liability for the lack of mixed genders. Male-female relationships, also cool and storyworthy (and potentially glamorizing for the female).
But. Where are the sisters?
Again, part of me thinks GRRM is intending to present a world that is very lonely for women. They have no career zones, they have no adult friendships (the only one we really see up close is the incidental one between Catelyn and Brienne -- its incidental, society in no way enabled it), they are not encouraged to travel and seek out their own company, and the marriage system enables men to preserve their youthful bonds and not women. Okay, fair. But is it also fair then that the ones he does have become that much more important to do well? Well, I'll cut to the chase, the one I really care to discuss is Sansa and Arya because that's clearly turning into something you root for -- do you get the feeling that GRRM is basically just inventing a problem to solve here? Erm, well clearly I believe that there are pre-existing biases against depictions of female-female interactions, bad depictions lead to bad reception leads to bad depictions and so on and so forth (damn feedback loops), I'm not saying GRRM invented all that. But couldn't GRRM just show a strong cooperative female-female relationship from the start and be done with it? Okay, you can say that readers are more invested if Sansa and Arya have to overcome obstacles, but if that's the case, did he also have to throw in Catelyn vs Lysa? Did he have to relegate the other female-female interactions to the sidebar? Did he have to turn Brienne and Catelyn's friendship down its dark and hostile path? Generally I can fit this into the social realities of the setting, but a part of me wonders if he couldnt've just balanced things out a bit -- though mostly I'm more irritated at the pre-existing reader mindset that the series comes into (again though, feedback loops). As it stands, one can read this series so far and never be challenged in the notion that male bonds are noble and true and deep, while female bonds are frivolous and small and weak. Men give their lives for each other, women shop.
[Poll #1245579]