ASOIAF & ze Greek pantheon

[misstopia]

Okay, so I'm a little silly, and I was thinking about ASOIAF and Greek(/Roman) mythology, trying to match people up, because this is the silly kind of thing I think about.

Zeus/Jupiter = Robert Baratheon. King, smiter, womanizer.
Hera/Juno = Cersei Lannister. Queen, hard, vindictive.
     Caveat: Hera championed marriage and didn't use sex
Ares/Mars = Jaime Lannister. Rwwaaarr carnage! Boo consequences! I am the hawt!
Apollo = Rhaegar Targaryen. Ideal, learned, righteous warrior.
Demeter/Ceres = Catelyn. Earthy, nurturing, grieving mother.
Persephone/Proserpina = Sansa. Innocent, youthful, captive.
Hermes/Mercury Pan = Tyrion. Cunning, witty, irreverent.
Artemis/Diana = Asha. Warrior, willful, voluntary bachelorette.
     Caveat: Artemis is associated with childbirth and virgins
Nemesis/Invidia = Arya. Vengeful, vengeful, vengeful.
Dionysus/Bacchus = Renly. Theatrical, good-timing, bon vivant. (Kinda weak huh?)
Hades/Pluto = Sandor. Dark, brooding, deathly.

Aphrodite/Venus bonked brother Ares/Mars even though she was married to someone else, so Cersei could be part Aphrodite. However Aphrodite was also genuinely loving, if vain. I almost put Margaery as Aphrodite because they're both beautiful, and come off as the popular pretty confident girl. Aphrodite slept around and there's speculation about Margaery's sexual activities. That's all I got.
Littlefinger might work for Hermes/Mercury, but Hermes is not evil. Clearly Littlefinger = Loki from Norse myth.
Bran is crippled like Hephaesteus/Vulcan and just may turn out to be something of a smith according to fan theory, but Bran is more inquisitive and there are no correlates for the green dreams, nor for Hephaesteus being cheated on by Aphrodite in the other direction. Tyrion is also deformed like Hephaesteus.
Weak correspondence between Dany vs Stannis and Athena vs Poseiden/Neptune. Athena's the most revered female deity and Dany's the seeming main heroine. GRRM might be giving Dany some Targ genius and Athena was wise. Both led armies and were judiciously fierce. Stannis and Poseidon are both overlooked resentful second brothers. Stannis and Dany might clash over the throne, and Poseidon and Athena both fought over who got the city now known as Athens named after them. Dany is probably anticipated to beat Stannis just like Athena beat Poseidon.
Brienne is a virginal warrior like Artemis/Diana ... but she seems way nicer. I mean I liked Artemis but she was a little mean. Lyanna also has an Artemisian vibe, athletic and resisting marriage, but also part Helen of Troy.
Wiki says: "The central myth of Demeter, which is at the heart of the Eleusinian Mysteries, is her relationship with Persephone, her daughter and own younger self." Eh, eh!

Thoughts?

Comments

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

I love the Greek Gods. So much. It's so sad that there's no tv show about them, they'd make good drama/comedy. (and though Hercules is my favourite Disney movie, the gods were not the whiny self-obsessed bitches I love so much.)

I actually think the Dionysus/Renly one is a very good fit. I remember something about the Apollo/Dionysus cult which was about them being polar opposites: Apollo representing wisdom and duty and Dionysus representing daring and a fun good time. Which is what Renly is about, IMO. And if you've ever read something about Prosymnus and the Dionysian mysteries, well, it makes it even a better fit.

If Margaery is Aphrodite, can Loras be Eros? (He does have some shades of Ganymede to him.) I agree that Cersei doesn't really fit Aphrodite (For one Aphrodite is too awesome) I do remember this story about the Trojan war when Aphrodite was carrying Ares through the air, but then she saw that her mortal son Aeneas was in trouble, so she dumped Ares on the ground to save her son (from a really great height). It's one of my favourite stories and it does sort of fit Cersei. But that would mean Joffrey is Aeneas and that's... eww. Tommen is a better fit.

The Demeter and Persephone are good fits but does that mean Sandor is Hades? *grins*

Apollo/Rhaegar made me laugh. Apollo is probably my favourite god but he was a bit emo sometimes (case in point: Hyasinthus and also the story of Daphne). I love him for it, though. Apollo was the god of poets so that's a really good fit.

Hermes does fit Tyrion though he also has something of Pan about him. Much of Pan's imagery was later used to represent the devil and he was the laughingstock of Olympus. (also, he had a lot of sex, something, uh, Tyrion shares with him.)

(I better stop before I scare you with my enthousiasm :P)

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

But wait! Now I got to think about the heroes of Ancient Greece.
Loras is so Achilles with his "MUST AVENGE RENLY, GRAH!"
Odysseus has a long redemption arc in which he turns into a wiser man. Jaime? He does have the snark, but I'm not sure if he has enough cunning. His military tactics were a bit dumb, to tell the truth. (I do like the fact that if you spell Cersei differently you get Circe. I bet Cersei would love to turn men into pigs)

Now that I think of it, Margaery also has the rose-theme going for her. But all the other attributes of the Grecian gods don't quite fit.

I also sort of love that Jaime has been matched with the loser of the Greek Pantheon. He does have the red/gold theme.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Loras is so Achilles with his "MUST AVENGE RENLY, GRAH!"
Yes!! What greater example of homoerotic brothers in arms than Achilles and Patroclus?

I was trying to find someone for Odysseus but nobody fit quite. I agree Jaime isn't excessively cunning, he's observant in his way and he has good intuition about certain things but he ... well he really is a good example of that student with talent who just doesn't apply himself, isn't he? And Jaime was a poor tactician, there's this terrific picture (http://mathia.110mb.com/art/soiaf/lannisters.jpg) by Mathia (http://mathia.110mb.com) where Tywin is strategizing, Kevan is strategizing, Jaime is ... playing with toys XD Of course, if Jaime is a loser, he's less of a loser after he starts his redemption arc. But I like that GRRM isn't making it easy for him.

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

Most people would go "O_o" if they heard what Achilles did to Hector ('s corpse). Loras would probably totally agree and nod fervently. Poor little rose.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Tyrion could be Odysseus, too, come to think of it.

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

The Demeter and Persephone are good fits but does that mean Sandor is Hades?

Definitely! The Hound does associate himself with death after all.

Anyway, leaving aside the gods, I've always thought that Rhaegar was meant as a combination of Paris and Hector. I've also thought Zeus/Hera = Robert/Cersei before, but their marriages aside, Cersei would be more of an Aphrodite.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Hector! I was musing on Rhaegar and Paris but Rhaegar just has so much more fear factor than Paris did. Throwing brave, civic-minded prodigal son Hector into the mix would solve that perfectly.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Enthusiasm doesn't scare me, apathy scares me =) (That sounds like I lifted it straight out of an after-school special, ahhahahah.)

The scene at Renly's pavillion with all the knights eating good food and drinking good wine and just having a lively old time when there's, you know, a war going on, that so reminds me of Dionysus. I haven't read anything abouy Prosymnus but I'll have to look it up, thanks for the tip.

The problem is that they're all too awesome for Cersei! I forgot though that Aphrodite was such a devoted mother to Aeneas. None of Cersei's children seem like a potential founder of Rome, however, though I'd much rather give that honor to Tommen than (eww!) Joff.

I was this close to putting Sandor as Hades, Sandor is associated with the Stranger a lot and that's the closest to Hades. He's dark and brooding, the only thing is he doesn't rule a realm. Hades is still a king and responsible for overseeing all those souls while Sandor's a loner. Still, I really should have put it down, we all know that in school nobody played with Hades on the playground. ;-)

You know, I think we make fun of Rhaegar's emo a little unfairly. Granted I think people who deify him forget that his actions led to a war, but technically wouldn't all the great poets then be emo? Byron, Shelley, Tennyson, they're so emo! But that's why they make good poets!

Tyrion is so Pan. You are win.

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

Still, I really should have put it down, we all know that in school nobody played with Hades on the playground. ;-)

Stannis then. Between his dear adviser Melisandre burning people and Stannis's merciless take on justice, he'd be ruling over a realm of dead people.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

But then I'd have to contemplate Stannis/Sansa and that makes me go sadface :-( Though it's true that if Poseidon was resentful of his older brother, Hades was even more so -- he didn't even get to live at Storm's End Olympus!

But I'll add him in as Sandor anyway, I'm too attached to the Persephone myth.

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you :) *bows*

Actually, this really made me like Rhaegar a bit. I totally adore Apollo for his emo moments, especially with Hyacinthos.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of the annoyance with Rhaegar is a reaction to people who say he's perfect and ignore the fact that his actions were justifiably upsetting to those who couldn't read his mind about his prophecy, and that they led to a war. He still was a very competent and learned person with a great and weighty conscience. He just reminds me of people who think that their great ivory tower ideas and insights gives them the right to ignore the rules of the rest of society, but really, if he actually did have the fate of the world in his hands, then maybe I'd have done the same. It's just that if we blame some characters for the unforeseen result of their actions, we should blame him too, either that or let them all off the hook, as long as its the same across the board.

I just googled the Hyacinthos story ... Apollo's lover associated with the hyacinth, Rhaegar's (supposed) lover associated with the blue rose ... !!

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

ITA. Much of my annoyance with Rhaefar stems from the fact that most people practically worship him. I mean, if Dany got that he was a bit... weird, then I could start liking him as a character. As of now she thinks he was OMGPERFECT and that the rebels were scum (while I think that they had very good reasons to rebel).

[scriva.livejournal.com]

Re Cersei = Aphrodite:

In Amor and Psyche, which should probably considered as "fanfiction" and not part of the myth, Aphrodite is also a very jealous mother who turns the girl her son married in secret into a swan (I think). So, Aphrodite can also have a negative connotation. It should also be noted, that Botticelli's Aphrodite would probably be a rather perfect picture of Cersei. ;)

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

In Amor and Psyche, which should probably considered as "fanfiction" and not part of the myth ...
Hrmm, that sounds interesting, why do you say that? Is it an inauthentic addition to the mythology? I always learned it right alongside the other ones in my children's mythology books. Is it really not?

[scriva.livejournal.com]

I was not entirely serious. The truth is that I'm not sure right now in which collection of myths it is included or if it is even written by a known author. It could even be part of Ovid's "Metamorphoses. And I guess it's normal that it is included in mythology books. (It wasn't in mine, though. ;))".

[jesatria.livejournal.com]

I think Cersei is a good fit for Aphrodite. Although I can see how you went with Hera for her.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Your icon is awesome! XD

Really I guess it is her marriage that made me go with Hera, otherwise Aphrodite sticks out a lot (I'm sure everyone sees Aphrodite as a blonde!). Hera was known for being vain as her pet peacocks, but really all the gods were pretty full of themselves eh?

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

I actually always picture Aphrodite with dark brown hair. Just seems more classy with pink/red.
The only Greek Gods I picture with blond hair are Apollo and Athena. Oh, and Ganymede. The rest of them have hair colours ranging from light brown to dark brown to black.

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

I don't remember how I pictured the Greek mythology characters as a kid, but since Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Xena: Warrior Princess, I've been picturing Alexandra Tydings as Aphrodite. :P

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Ahah, I loved Alexandra Tydings on those shows, she was a hoot. But I kind of stopped watching along the way, did they ever state that Ares was Cupid's father? 'Cause I remember them showing her as a generally sincere wife to "Heffy" which was not like the myths.

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

There was never any Ares/Aphrodite on those shows. They were written as siblings and the show avoided mentioning that Zeus and Hera were siblings so I think they were ignoring the incest.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. Too much time with ASOIAF has made me forget that most people actually avoid the subject of incest. (I suppose they never mentioned that Hephaesteus and Aphrodite were at lest half siblings as well!)

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

I suppose they never mentioned that Hephaesteus and Aphrodite were at lest half siblings as well!

Nope.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

My first exposure to mythology was D'Aulaires (http://www.amazon.com/DAulaires-Greek-Myths-Ingri-DAulaire/dp/0440406943/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207417441&sr=8-1) and in there I think she was a blonde, but I also read that she had dark brown hair in some books also, especially when it was emphasized that she was Cytheran in origin. Apollo's totally a blond, I saw Athena more with light sandy brown hair but I can see blonde too.

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

In my imagination Ares and Aphrodite have the same hair colour. They are my white-trash-of-the-gods OTP. :D (they're always so rude! hee!)

d'aulaires looks like a book I'd totally love if I got it as a kid. Anyways, I got this really thick book with Greek and Roman myths when I was nine or something, I loved the stories but you could tell it was written by this old guy with no idea how to make a story exciting. THen I got this brilliant Dutch book "Waiting for Apollo" which rocked for, y'know, making an actual story out of five myths. The writer really showed the imperfections of the gods (eg, Athena and Arachne) and her version of Apollo and his young son who crashed the sunchariot was really awesome. And Apollo and Daphne was wonderful as well (especially because of Eros, he was such a cocky brat.)

Actually this reminds me what I don't like about the Greek myths, they're so rarely told as real stories, but more like some inscriptions read by some archeologist.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

This is all very interesting! I think Hera is a very good fit for Cersei, what with the way they both handle the mistresses of their husbands.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Hera's infamous vindictive jealousy just screamed Cersei to me, that's actually what got me thinking about all of this (like redcandle17 said above, Robert/Cersei just invites easy comparison to Zeus/Hera).

Re. Tyrion and Odysseus: Yes he's certainly cunning like Odysseus, though I suppose we have yet to see if he'll be humbled by life like Odysseus was. He does share the initial irreverence for the gods though. Good catch.